Mean Wedding Girls
Dana forwarded a letter to me from one of our readers who was having trouble with the message boards on another wedding website. No, she didn’t say which one. But “C” recently tried to post a couple questions of her own on the board, and was shocked at the response:
I like it and she likes it, but if you don't, just respond and recycle without comment, please.
Both posts received the cattiest, snarkiest responses I could imagine, not one of which was actually helpful or even slightly compassionate. I was shocked! My questions were perfectly legitimate, nothing out of the ordinary from what I had seen other people posting. I then began to look at some other boards and realized that the majority of these messages were snarky and unhelpful, and that very few people actually respond in any sort of helpful manner. What the hell, ladies?
Seriously, what the hell? I mean, I know that the internet breeds anonymous nastiness, heck, I had a job in the late 90s that was based on it, but it’s just not cool in an environment that’s supposed to be about sharing information and educating each other. There’s no reason to call someone or their ideas stupid, or ugly, just because you don’t like it or wouldn’t do it yourself. I noticed the same posts when I was planning my own wedding five million years ago, and it bums me out that it still exists.
But the problem is that this nastiness exists in Live Wedding World, too. And it’s not just your mother. It’s a bridesmaid that repeatedly points out the slight paunch showing in the front of your dress (like you don’t know it’s there) , or refers to the color of the yellow roses in your centerpieces as “bile colored.” Or the best friend from college who rags on the font choice on your invitations after she gets the invitation. Like, calls you up to complain about it. I have seen and heard about all these things. Everywhere you turn, there seems to be a woman who takes a personal affront to your personal taste. There is definitely a lot of Girl-on-Girl crime going on out there, as Tina Fey would say.
And, really, it doesn’t matter why, there are a thousand reasons why. It could be jealousy, it could be stress, it could be the result of the societal pressure that is put on women to be perfect and to know how to have and to have a perfect wedding, through like, osmosis, or whatever. It could just be that time of the month, because it’s always that time of the month for someone somewhere. Could be their dog died. Could be the condo is getting foreclosed on. I don’t care.
Knock it off.
Not your choice? NOT YOUR WEDDING.
“C” wondered if her tormentors had never heard of the saying “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” I’d go one step further and remind them of this one, “Do unto others as you would have done to you.” How would you feel if someone said these things to you? You might think of it as constructive criticism, but I know constructive criticism, because I have to do it all the time. Are you adding the “constructive” part in there? Got any advice, pointers, anything helpful before the fact? If not, shush. Wrinkling your nose and proclaiming “That sucks, ” is only going to end in hurt feelings, just like it would hurt yours. The people on the internet may not have faces or names, but they exist. And your friends and family totally exist and will be with you much longer than a username. Do yourself a favor and behave accordingly – charity begins at home. Or if you can’t think of anything nice to say, then start with, “I don’t know, what do YOU think?” Which is perhaps a better jumping off point than, “You look like a tranny whore.” I’m just saying.
So, when was the last time you were a victim of a mean wedding girl? How did you respond? Share the shock in the comments below.
See you at the end of the aisle,
One of my favorite aspects of any wedding are the things that make it unique. Sure, a lot of it isn't stuff I would do, but that's why I love seeing it! I don't understand making catty comments about someone else's ideas. It's not like they're forcing you to do what's in their vision. Appreciate it for what it is, and if you don't like it, don't do it!
I can only assume she was talking about The Knot. I enjoy reading those boards on occasion, and sometimes people have good advice, but they are a very….tough love kind of boards. There are certain things there that are accepted as Universal Truths, and the posters who dare challenge these things will be flamed and flamed hard. For example, I do not find a honeymoon registry tacky, and I know many people who've had them and no one else thought they were tacky either. But if you bring it up on TK, you will be called a selfish, horrible person for even suggesting it as an idea. Generally I think you can find good advice there but you definitely need a thick skin and to not let Strangers on the Internet bother you too much.
As for real life mean girling, I have not encountered this yet, thank the lord. My sister is the only one who comes close, and I don't think she does it on purpose. She makes offhand comments on how she thinks certain things (like my super cute save the dates) are a "total waste of money". But I just try not to let it bother me.
I can understand being honest if someone is asking for an honest opinion, but you can still be nice even if you don't particularly care for the idea. Rather than saying, "Wow, that's the ugliest ____ I've ever seen." You can either not say anything at all, or kindly respond that it isn't your style and maybe offer a helpful suggestion, but still be nice – you can nicely say that something isn't your style or to your taste. I just don't understand why so many women think it's perfectly okay to be snarky B*tches to anyone and everyone. I have a sister-in-law who is a mean girl, and let me tell ya, it's not easy, which is why I avoid the woman at all cost.
love the picture that goes along with it! I will never understand why people can't just be nice. It's the same with drivers really. as soon as you can't see someone's face it's suddenly ok to be mean to them! NOT RIGHT.
I had the same experience on a shall-not-be-named wedding website. I had a legitimate problem, and although the issue seemed to be along the lines of what other posters had been responding to on the boards, the respond posts to mine were nasty, to the point where I became so upset that I have not visited the site again (it's been months). One of the things I noticed was that it was a lot of the same people who heavily posted on all of the boards, and many of them seemed to "know" each other. I think they just have nothing better to do all day than to sit around and post nasty answers because it s a message board and faceless. I highly doubt they would ever say those things to people's faces. (I hope they wouldn't, but who knows). In the meantime, I just had to remind myself that the best sources of advice have been my married friends, who have been kind, patient, and more than willing to give me sound (and polite) advice.
I imagine she is talking about The Knot as well. I read it for advice, but I don't dare post anymore after posting my first question and get called some pretty mean things. (I said I had a friend that assumed she was a bridesmaid when she wasn't, and I got called selfish for excluding someone because of the size of the party—which I never even said!). Some of the women on there aren't even brides—they aren't engaged yet, or called off their weddings, or got married years ago, and yet think they are some sort of authorities to keep the rest of us in line. So, my advice about message boards is to just search for your question—most likely someone has asked if before, and you can avoid having anyone rain on your own parade.
I also posted a question once on a popular wedding site and got such snarky comments (like Beth and Tara) I never used the site again. I think we all can guess which it is and the editors should take note, those trolls are turning off their customers.
I agree with Meegs, grow some thick skin and don't let the Internet Strangers get the best of you. Even in real life. I did run into some issues with the girls in my wedding, thankfully none as snarky as the commenters that C ran into. I had relatively minor issues like the girls. Mostly the girls didn't want to help much, which might have been better than if they were there every step of the way, I had quite the opinionated group of bridesmaids. However, I would have to say, that there is no reason why should ANYONE behave so badly and be so rude. One could say that she did not care for that, or make suggestions on something she might think would be better. Besides, it's not her wedding, she should just go along with it. When it's her turn, she can pick/do whatever she wants then. Also, Beth mentioned the best advice-givers are the married friends. They've been through it before, and can offer a better view of things.
I try to avoid wedding boards like that. I am really only active in any way on one, Offbeat Bride, which discourages douchebaggery. I just think it’s sad. We are most vulnerable to criticism as brides. We should be supportive instead of tearing each other up. There’s a certain amount of inevitability, though. There are just some people who can’t help but to be assholes. They always have been, they probably always will be. Internet anonymity is just another tool for them to use to make other people sad so they feel better.
Nice, Liz. Just when I was starting to think it was me, or maybe just the fact that as a man, i just don't quite "get" the Wedding Industry. I'm not saying that I'm not as snarky as the next Cake Pimp, but MAN, you women can be so hard on each other!
my mean girl is a guy friend of mine. I am having a small wedding- about 75 people and everyone already knows the date but I decided to send out save the dates because many of my family & friends will be traveling to the wedding. Whenever I spoke to him he would be scold me about not sending the save the date out yet. My reply was that he knew when the wedding was and that he should not be so concerned with the save the date. Once it went out, we talked on the phone and he was snarky about what they looked like and who put together the website. Than he topped off the conversation by saying that he couldnt wait to spend the 3 days of my wedding with a bottle of jack daniels in his hand. Nothing like a drunk mean girl(guy) at your wedding! I am breathing deep and thinking of a good way to talk to him about it.
I have experienced some of this nastiness. A bride had posted a question about the minimum attendance for one venue – and I posted the information that the venue had given me. The responses that came after were shocking – there were at least 5 posts contradicting my information, saying I was wrong, that the venue would never give that quote – they were almost attacking me. It was shocking.
Needless to say, I've pretty much stopped posting on that site. As much as I like to hear other people's feedback, I'd rather just do the research myself and ask my friends/family.
I was so excited to find that above mentioned at not mentioned website, because I thought it would be PERFECT for helping me plan something I know NOTHING about! As far as weddings go, I've been to two total, and its a very foreign world to me. At first I was appalled by the behavior of these other so-called helpful and knowledgeable brides. I started questioning every detail of my own wedding (I also wanted a Honeymoon registry but then found out I was tacky and cheap). I began questioning everything I wanted, which then had me questioning mySELF. It was pretty discouraging.
But, unfortunately, I didn't leave the boards right away, and after seeing so much of it, it became less shocking to me. And then, well, if I'm being honest, I will admit that I actually began to act like those snarky a**holes for a second. It probably boils down to the fact that as a young girl I was the follower, and I never chose the nice, sweet girls to follow. Oh no, I had to follow the nasty rule-with-fear girls. So, all these years later, and I found myself doing it again. It was only once or twice, but that was all it took for me to notice it and remove myself from the problem.
I haven't been back since. I found a book about being offbeat, and realized in reading it that i could do whatever I damn well pleased. Who needs those boring stick-in-the-mud snarky brides anyway!?
I've found that there's a lot of girl-on-girl crime out there regarding the working or not working mom thing. That's one I've been victim of, and its really saddening. Women have so many issues with self-worth already, that we should be loving each other, not tearing each other down. I say we need to embrace ourselves AND each other! Starting with our daughters, I guess. That would be a good way to ensure less needless drama for the next generation.
PS. Sorry for the long post! lol
I also had some mean experiences on The Knot boards. Ones that kept me up at night wondering if this was how my entire wedding planning process was going to be. They were rude to me, threatened me, told me I shouldn't consider myself "one of them" and when they weren't doing that, they just didn't write anything at all. It's as if they followed their own mantra "If you don't have anything snarky to say, don't say anything at all." Luckily, I left the forum and stuck to talking to actual friends (and the occasional folks on Offbeat Brides) with encouragement from the fiance.
I'm disheartened that I'm not the only one that experienced this. I'll have to warn my friends as they get engaged to stay clear of places like that. It just adds extra stress at an already stressful time!
The saddest part, is that most of the snarky women on the unmemtionalble website, mentioned above, are already married and have nothing better to do than trash other people's weddings! To these women, I say get a hobby that is a little more constructive and alot less negative!
I joined The Knot shortly after getting engaged wanting to talk to other woman that were planning their wedding , the first time I posted a question (on my local board) I got my head chewed off by someone. I was so upset about it.She basically said I shouldn't get married because I was thinking about not having a flower girl or a ring barrer in my wedding. Seriously? That was heartless!!
Forums? I see it in real life.
I bought my dress at David's Bridal. When people learn this, they sneer. Actually make a face at me. I got to listen to a friend of a friend at a party talk about how low rent DB is and how only rednecks with no concept of quality would ever get their dress from there. Awesome. Thanks for deciding that I'm a tasteless redneck, but actually I'm a broke ass public school teacher who went to a really good school that I couldn't afford leaving me with tons of student loan debt. I have champagne taste on a Natty Lite budget, so I got my designer knock off from DB and I love it.
A lot of my friends got engaged right after we did so I've been hearing this catty bs a lot lately. Another friend of mine is having her reception at a barn with barbeque (I'm so jealous of her wedding, it's not really my style though, but it's going to be so much fun!) Another friend keeps making nasty comments about it "A barn? Glad she's taking marriage so seriously." Really? He's getting married at a golf course, does that mean he's not serious either? Geez oh man, it's not a contest!
Wow.. I'm relatively new to wedding world, and have yet to encounter meanness about minutia like invitations or dresses. That's completely uncalled for and my heart goes out to all you ladies that have been victims of the cattiness. Thus far, I've only experienced judgment based on my situation: my fiance comes from a strict Muslim family (he's from the Middle East) and my family is pretty conservative Christian. Needless to say, a bunch of people have their knickers in a bunch that we're getting married. Any BAB's out there have advice on dealing with interracial / intercultural marriage haters?
@ Jaime: I think I'm going to start saying 'champagne taste on a Natty budget.' Love it. And I love DB too. DB is not the frat water of wedding dresses.
When I first entered the wedding forums, I was excited and happy to be among fellow brides. I was young and the idea of planning a wedding on my own was terrifying, so how great was it that I had somewhere to go and ask my questions?
Wow, was I in for a nasty shock. I posted a question on ceremony seating; "how can I seat my FH's bitterly divorced parents at the ceremony without causing a fight?"
The replies I got were lagrely irrelevant to my question, and instead were attacking my age. "18 years old? You should be planning for COLLEGE, not a wedding." "If you aren't mature enough to figure out how to seat your in-laws had your wedding, you shouldn't be getting married." Some others were even nastier, and I immediately deleted my profile and left the forum, crushed at how horrible people could be.
It's pathetic what people do behind the mask of the Internet.
I am a newlywed and posted something on The Nest, which is the "Just Married" section of The Knot, and it's the same thing over there! I was totally and completely blindsided by some people's reactions to a post of mine–name calling, etc. So many people there seem to jump at a chance to criticize others without even finding out the details. When I responded by saying "Gee, I don't think it's necessary to be negative or rude, especially without finding out the entire story!" I was blasted by other people because I am supposed to expect that kind of response when posting on the internet. Really? I've been posting on internet boards for years and have NEVER seen the predatory rudeness I've seen on that site. I no longer go there, either. In most cases, there are moderators who ensure that things don't get too far, but at that particular site, no one seems to care when posters get abusive!
@Jamie – next time you get crap about DB, tell them The Godess herself, Vera Wang, is doing a line for them. I rented my dress, Lord knows what they would say about that!
Taylor – I’m black, raised Christian (as in, no time to bad too busy saying “Jesus”) Zane’s Jewish. Welcome to my world.
""If you aren't mature enough to figure out how to seat your in-laws had your wedding, you shouldn't be getting married.""
OMG I got almost the exact same thing! I posted about how I was slightly jealous that a friend of mine who got engaged before me had already booked a venue that I love. Everyone uniformly attacked me for being "so immature," with several people saying I shouldn't be getting married if I wasn't completely "OMG no biggie!" and immediately booking my wedding at the exact same venue as one of my bridesmaids. I was so completely perplexed by this.
It's actually a theme on TK boards that if you have a human emotional reaction to something in a totally normal way, it makes you a horrible person. If you don't let every single thing roll off your back as no big deal it automatically means you're SO not ready to get married. It's just crazypants over there.
And don't even get me started on the women who have been married for years and who post on every single thread in every single section. Don't they have jobs? I just don't get it.
In the words of Bill and Ted, can't wall just be excellent to each other??? Weddings are an emotionally intense time for everyone, but we gotta stick together and be supportive!!
totally agree with this! i joined the knot a month or two before my official engagement and checked out the "not engaged yet" board. at the time i was just waiting and waiting for my proposal and considered writing a post about it. after lurking around a bit i discovered a few other posts women had written who were feeling the same thing i was! while this was exciting to know i was not the "only one," the responses given to these girls were so rude, it definitely scared me off. we ARE supposed to be supportive for each other and its upsetting to think that these (mostly) already married women are harping on others. it almost seems as though they take pride and find camaraderie with one another in their bitchiness and snark. DISLIKE.
i haven't encountered this because the only wedding discussion board i joined when i got engaged was the Offbeat Bride Tribe… and i've never looked back. i would highly recommend this place for anyone wanting to seek feedback through the internet in a constructive, helpful way, even for those who might not actually consider themselves "offbeat."
i think i encounter enough "really? that's… interesting…" comments on my wedding choices in real life, that i just don't want to hear what people who don't care about sparing my feelings have to say. thus far, i've only received support & open-minded encouragement online… which has been a necessary relief.
Hear, hear to Offbeat Bride! Stark contrast to any type of "OMG – seriously???" commentary. It is the perfect place to indulge in your craziest bridal moments and remember that you will make it through, and there's twenty other women going through the same thing. The Tribe is just as it sounds: a tribe to stand behind you, support you, and go through all the excitement, stress, and revelry with you.
It's really apparent that a lot of the regular gals on certain boards of the "unnamed site"- I'm looking at you Etiquette board *cough* have no real etiquette or tact themselves when it comes to communicating via the internet, and honestly if you stay around long enough to see many of their off topic posts, it doesn't look like a lot of them are happily married/enjoyed their wedding day. Just a basic case of someone being miserable themselves, and raining on your parade to make themselves feel better or bring you down to their level.
That said, the boards do have a lot of useful info, especially the local ones. For anything else I'd take it with a grain of salt. You'll find that if someone in the "accepted" poster group posts the same question as you, all comments will be sugary sweet, while yours might get flamed. Let's not forget the overly predominant vibe that if your wedding does not confirm to traditional Western standards, it's total crap, despite the fact there are girls from all of the world using the site. For some posters who act like we should all be tough, big girls and not sweat the little stuff, they sure get their panties in a bunch over what other strangers are choosing to do with their wedding.
Hi everyone, I'm actually the one who wrote to Liz and Dana about this issue. Thank you all for commenting and for NOT being snarky and mean about it! Liz's wonderful post has sparked the kind of thought processes and conversation that I was hoping to get when I emailed about my experience. I still won't say which website it was, but it sounds like many of you have experienced the same situation and had the same reaction. I deleted my membership to the site in question after reading the mean things people had posted. You hear so much about cyber bullying these days on Facebook and among kids in junior high and high school, but it's really sad to know that it happens just as often, if not more often, among fully grown, "mature" adults. It is good to see that on this website at least we have a community of supportive, thoughtful people who would never speak to each other the way that I and so many others have been spoken to elsewhere. Then again, the crew running this site would certainly not stand for it!
Props to Liz for actually answering the questions that I had posted about in the first place, and for responding to my request that we start this important conversation.
There is only one forum I will post on after nastiness on a facebook wedding forum, and the awesome one is projectwedding.com sometimes you get the occasional person saying that the support inst genuine, but honestly, moat of the people that post on there just follow the playground rule if you don't have Anything nice to say, don't.
HEAR HEAR!!!!!
My name is Seerizzy and I hate all of those trolls over at wedding wire!They make planning a wedding the last thing you want to do!Holla
I have to agree about weddingwire, lately it is nothing but snarky comments and trying to get back at each other for posts it feels like high school all over again.
I have posted a couple times on a popular wedding site and haven't had any trouble, but I did read a post from a woman who had eloped at a judge's office and now wanted a wedding ceremony. She was absolutely crucified in the forum! She was told that she had already had her "wedding" in the judge's office and didn't deserve the ceremony. I disagree. I've known a couple other people who couldn't afford the wedding, but wanted to be legally wed and did the big event later. Everyone knew and still showed up for the fun!
For the person who is not going to have a ring bearer or flower girl…me either! I am giving myself away (I've taken care of myself and my kids alone for 11 years), and I'm not going to toss my bouquet or a garter either because I think it's a bit demeaning for single folks to be made to fight for those (though I will admit I was thrilled to catch the bouquet at my daughter's wedding. How funny is that?) I think weddings are all about how YOU want them to be! They're stressful enough without others raining on the parade.
I love Mindy's term "predatory rudeness" (although I'd probably go meanness because what I've seen goes well-beyond rude). The hard thing is that many of us post to these sites when we've reached a breaking point – when we're already maxed out. I took a long break after I posted a question in desperation and received the same vicious treatment. Since I was already at my limit, their harsh, unfounded critique left me sobbing. My fiance talked me down – "Are these people whose opinions you respect? Look at how many posts she's made. Does she do anything besides hanging out on a wedding website being mean?" but really, I've only recently been back to The Rot and only to my local board which is generally a helpful group and I like being one of the nice people who actually gives a well-intentioned, kind-hearted response (even if I am saying, "I think that might offend some people and you need to decide if it's worth the fall out or not. Here are some ideas that might please everyone.") and I like to share some of the work that I've done so that it makes my extensive photographer research a little more useful.
Sites such as these really need to get it under control or nix the boards altogether. Problem #1, I don't think that their moderators are actually paid employees. One of the women who responded so meanly was actually one of their moderators.
However, it's likely only a matter of time (if not already) when those same bullies post a link to this on the boards and say that anyone who needs things 'sugarcoated' (it's called tact…) is a baby and shouldn't be getting married.
Haha, Kristen, "The Rot." I'm glad to see that it isn't just me and that other people have experienced the same thing! I actually thought for a second that my questions (and myself) were as stupid as these women were making them sound in their responses! Thank you for being level-headed human being, everyone!
I used to be a moderator on The Knot and all of you are absolutely right. There are two groups of posters on TK who are essentially rival gangs. Not only do they love to prove their own cabal's superiority over their rival, they also delight in savaging anyone they don't agree with or who hasn't received the gang's seal of approval. How does someone get the elusive seal of approval? I haven't a clue. Like all of you, I've wondered why these women are so nasty and what they could possibly be getting out of all of this. More importantly, I can't understand why the powers that be at TK don't shut these bullies down. Every now and then TK's forum boss, "Knot Annie", puts out a warning to the mean girls to tone it down. It doesn't work.
I stopped being a moderator and broke up with TK because I found the overall tone of the boards to be too nasty for my taste. I got tired of being ripped to shreds for my posts while watching mean girls post exactly the same things and be praised for them. It got old watching the regular posters beating newbies into submission, and watching newbies then dance as fast as they could to get approval of the same women who had just shamed and humiliated them for asking a simple question or daring to offer their uninformed, unapproved newbie opinion. Anyone who dared to protest the negativity was promptly flamed into submission.
I wonder if Knot Annie and others at TK, and their advertisers, realize how many brides have been completely turned off by the treatment they've received on TK? You'd think the advertisers would put pressure on TK to clamp down on the negativity and nastiness of these regulars (who are, in large part, long-married or now-divorced and by all rights need to move on from a wedding-planning site). Planning a wedding is supposed to be a happy time, and if I were an advertiser on TK, I'd rethink partnering with a company that seemingly endorses this ugly, cruel behavior on its boards.
Once I had "GBCK-ed" (goodbye, cruel Knot — yes, the mean girls call it that) my wedding planning became fun again. I have to confess that I was secretly glad my engagement and wedding rings were designed by someone who was not a TK advertiser and were sold by a jewelry chain that also does not advertise on TK. I got some gratification out of ordering my invitations, favors and other wedding stuff from companies that were not advertisers on TK. My reception venue was not listed as a "The Knot Best of Weddings" vendor, but they did a first-rate job on my reception. When choosing our venue, we had narrowed it down to two that we liked equally. My now-husband suggested that we go with the venue that hadn't purchased The Knot's "best of" designation. I'll admit it. I got a kick out of being "off The Knot" the way some people enjoy living "off the grid". It was liberating.
@ Taylor: Offbeat Bride Tribe has a whole group for interfaith marriages and there are actually amusing stories there of people having pagan ceremonies that neither family realized were pagan! if it's something you don't mind playing around with, consider meeting with heads of both of your faiths to plan a ceremony that incorporates both faiths. as for the nay-sayers… it's cool… it's not their marriage and obviously the two of you have, or are willing to, work through any differences that arrive. if only you could educate each side so they could see how much they actually have in common! besides, who you love isn't a political choice.
@ Jaime: haha i say the same thing except i'm more of a PBR bride